Episode 87. Client Spotlight: Leaving Law for Full-Time Entrepreneurship with Clara Nah

Today, we have one of our awesome clients Clara to give a behind-the-scenes into her journey from being unfulfilled in her law career to now being a full-time coach.

We’re doing it live in person for the first time ever because we just both happen to be in Singapore right now. I think I’m a little bit more nervous than usual because this is like in real time. We also just decided to turn on the Instagram Live app at the same time!

Clara and I started working together from mid-2021 to early 2022. She’s a fitness trainer and a health and nutrition coach. When she first reached out to me, she was transitioning. Clara was almost graduating from law school, and was going to start studying for the bar exams and practicing law.

On our first call, Clara mentioned that she felt like giving up on her business because she didn’t really know where it was going and she was just confused about life. Eventually, Clara signed 9 clients in her first month of being a full-time entrepreneur!

You can find Clara on Instagram at @shredthatcheese to learn more about her 1:1 coaching program.

In This Episode:

Leaving law for full-time entrepreneurship: What the decision-making process looked like and all the mind drama that came up

Clara:

I studied law at the University of Singapore. When I first reached out to Cheryl, I was going through a transition. I was about to graduate from law school and start studying for the bar exams to practice law. I remember on my first call with Cheryl, I expressed my feelings of wanting to give up on my business. I felt confused about my life.

I couldn’t see the purpose of what I was doing. I didn’t even understand the essence of my own business.

I’m a fitness trainer, health coach, and nutrition coach. I’m finding myself, kind of like an Eat Pray Love journey. But yes, I run a fitness coaching business. I got certified as a personal trainer and nutrition coach during my third year of law school. I started working in group fitness gyms, such as F45, and later transitioned to one-on-one personal training at Anytime Fitness. Then I started freelancing as a personal trainer. I also provide nutrition coaching.

Recently, I made a major life decision to leave law. After passing the bar exam, I practiced law as a trainee lawyer for six months. Halfway through, I was like, “Nah, this is not it.”. Cheryl can relate to that feeling.

Interestingly, during those six months, I changed my mind three times. But eventually, I reached a breaking point and made the firm decision to leave law. So, I left and embarked on a two-week solo backpacking trip in Europe. Now, I’m in my second week of working for myself since returning from my trip.

Cheryl:

Since you shared a little bit about your recent major career decisions, such as being a law trainee and passing the bar exam. So you technically could be a practicing lawyer, but you’re here today. Let’s explore that further.

You mentioned changing your mind a few times in the past year. Can you provide more specifics on what led to those changes and ultimately made you decide to quit law and pursue fitness as your main career? What was the tipping point that solidified your decision?

Clara:

Practicing law was bearable. I didn’t hate it. I was at a really good law firm, which had a good work life balance and good working culture. I like my colleagues. But I think at the end of the day, I felt the most happy, most authentic and most fulfilled in my third and fourth year of law school where I pursued my side hustle as a fitness coach while studying. 

I feel like because I had that experience, when I was practicing law, I just kept thinking about this alternate reality. That’s why I eventually decided to leave.

I’m grateful that I had this alternative option available to me when I realized that law wasn’t the right path for me. I could have continued practicing law for a longer period if I had pushed myself, but I reached a point where I didn’t want to waste any more time. That was the tipping point, realizing my life could be better.

I felt really lethargic all the time. I hated that feeling looking forward to the weekends and looking forward to the end of the work, and dreading Mondays. I wanted to feel alive, but instead, I felt so drained. It wasn’t the work itself that drained me, but rather the circumstances surrounding it.

Clara:

I think most people believed that I should have stayed in my law career for a longer period of time. They saw the value in having two years of experience as a practicing lawyer on my resume, which would make me more credible than just having graduated from law school and passed the bar. They wanted me to stay longer to really confirm if leaving was what I truly wanted. They thought that having the experience would also make it easier for me to return to the corporate world if I eventually decided that working for myself wasn’t the right path.

As for my parents, they were actually quite supportive. My mom runs her own business and understands my perspective. However, they did want me to be more decisive because I had changed my mind three times. Towards the end, they questioned if I was really sure about my decision. But I assured them that I was indeed very sure.

So the general consensus was that I should have stayed longer.

Cheryl:

I’m actually really curious about the reactions of the people around you who are not entrepreneurs or coaches, especially your fellow trainees or other lawyers at your firm. When you first hinted or explicitly expressed your intention to leave, what were their responses like? Did they react negatively, positively, or somewhere in between?

How Clara signed 9 clients in her first month of being a full-time entrepreneur

Cheryl:

So now you’ve officially left the firm. Was it like June? As of recording, it is August 5 2022. You’ve been out on your own for a while. You also traveled solo for a while to Europe. Cool things on the Instagram! How has life been since you’re starting your digital nomad life?

Clara:

Life has been okay, but it’s not all sunshine and butterflies.

After coming back from Europe, I realized that I had a lot of fun posting on Instagram while I was there. It taught me the important lesson of enjoying myself on social media and not seeing it as work.

In one of my coaching sessions with Cheryl, I was telling her that I wanted to be more present in my life and having to think about social media is stressful and draining.

I used to find it stressful and draining because I felt like my entire business was built on social media. I would constantly question whether I should post something or not, which contributed to my flip-flopping decisions.

However, I have recently learned to have fun with it. During my time in Europe, I would randomly post about my experiences. I also came across the concept of work-life harmony, which resonated with me more than work-life balance. When you truly enjoy what you do, you don’t necessarily need a strict balance between work and life; instead, you can harmonize them together.

Being in Europe solidified the idea that social media can be fun and doesn’t have to be stressful. Interestingly, I was also making offers at that time and even signed three clients while having fun in Europe, just before returning.

Cheryl:

Wait, what? You did not tell me that!

Clara:

I signed one client when I was in Europe. Then I came back and I signed two more.

Cheryl:

So how many is that?

Clara:

Total, I have like nine clients now.

Cheryl:

And how did you do that? Tell us!

Clara:

By having fun!

Cheryl:

Wow. And how do you have fun?

Clara:

One thing I learned from you is the importance of your energy. When I was in Europe, I naturally felt inclined to post about health and fitness while having fun. People seemed attracted to my energy while I was living my best life and being my best self. 

But when I came back, I have to admit I felt a bit stressed about working for myself. I found myself staying at home from 9 am to 5pm because I wasn’t used to the freedom I had. Then one day, I questioned why I was at home when I could be out, enjoying the beach or hanging out with my only coaching friend, Cheryl.

I also experienced some anxiety because I felt like I should be working all the time since my income was in my hands. I wondered if everyone should know why I’m not working. Adjusting to this new lifestyle was initially anxiety-inducing. But eventually, I started having fun with it.

I started making plans to go to the skate park or the beach in the middle of the day. The best part about this new life is that I feel like I have a blank slate. It’s up to me to create the life I want and the reality I envision for myself.

Cheryl:

When Clara said going to the skate park and stuff. Recently Clara dragged me to a trampoline class. It seems like I am now officially her workout buddy. So I appreciate that. Thank you for making me exercise.

One interesting point you mentioned earlier is the importance of energy.

I’d like to add my observation as your coach regarding Clara. She naturally has a humorous and quirky personality, which shines through in her content. Although she may appear more subdued in this podcast episode or video, she exudes a unique and funny persona in her natural state.

When Clara mentioned having fun in Europe and making offers from that state of mind, it’s worth highlighting. In our coaching sessions, I often emphasize the concept of being yourself as a strategy. In the context of your own business, embracing and expressing your authentic self can be incredibly effective.

Clara discovered that when she leaned into her true personality, shared her own opinions, lived experiences, and showcased her character and personality, she achieved remarkable results. That’s how she was able to sign nine clients in her first month of full-time entrepreneurship.

How working with a coach helped Clara develop the skills and mindset tools she needed to feel confident to leave law in 2022

Cheryl:

I would also like us to discuss how your business and the skills you’ve acquired through entrepreneurship have contributed to your confidence in leaving law and pursuing a full-time entrepreneurial and digital nomad lifestyle.

You could have easily left your job and felt scared, leading you to reconsider and want to return to your previous career. However, you mentioned that your business became a second option.

What specific skills, evidence, and mindset tools did you develop and have in place before feeling confident and comfortable enough to quit your career?

Clara:

The most important evidence for me was realizing that while studying for the bar exams and working with Cheryl, I was able to nearly match the starting pay I would have received in my first year of law. It was like, yes, I can make money. And it’s the most important thing.

I’m quite optimistic and I believe that human beings will find a way to survive and things will work out.

​​In terms of business skills, Cheryl’s coaching approach simplified things for me. She emphasized focusing on doing the bare minimum and being really consistent with that.

I was able to do that while I was in law school and while studying for the bar exams. I learned that if I went all in on it, the results would be even better. And I already know the key things I need to focus on, I just need to double down on them.

I always know that I have Cheryl and I could work with her again if I ever needed support. I know that there are people who will support me. Because Cheryl and I are part of this group of friends with Rae and Reiko, fellow female entrepreneurs.

I have friends who showed me that this is possible, I can create the life that I want. That’s really inspiring for me. 

It was after I met up with them, when we went to Reiko’s house for a steamboat. Reiko and Rae were saying, “Oh, we’re gonna go to Bali for one month in June. Clara, do you want to join us?” I’m like, ”What? What do you mean? I’m working!”. And that made me realize that this is not the life I wanted to lead.

Cheryl:

I also want to quickly detour a little bit, because you mentioned fellow entrepreneurial/coach friends in Singapore, who support you. I just want to go on a little tangent here.

Whoever is listening to this conversation right now, whether it’s on Instagram Live, or on the podcast, I really want to encourage you to make friends. Make friends who are doing similar things as you. It doesn’t matter if they’re a fellow coach or service-based entrepreneur. I really want you to make friends, where you can get support from people who understand the emotional ups and downs that you’re gonna go through as an entrepreneur.

For those of us who’ve been in this game for a while, it’s not fun, like 80% of the time. You’re gonna feel terrible, like 80% of the time. But it’s the 20% that make it really worth it.

When you’re surrounded by people who genuinely support you and understand, that makes a lot of a difference. Whether that means joining another group community, a paid one or a Facebook group, or going to a local meetup, I just really want you to make friends. Please. Any thoughts on that?

Clara:

I totally agree because I think it really increases your confidence to know that you have people backing you up and people you can turn to.

Before I left for Europe, I had a meet up with Cheryl and Reiko. 

Because I had a very rosy picture of what it would be like. I was super optimistic. I was like, “Yes, I’m quitting! I’m gonna live my best life as a digital nomad!”. And Cheryl was actually telling me, it’s not going to be easy all the time. That grounded me, but it also reminded me that I have people who have been through the same shit that I’m going to go through. So I can always talk to them.

Managing your expectations around the reality of entrepreneurship

Cheryl:

One realization I’ve come to is that in the past few years, especially during Covid, a lot of coaches contribute to a narrative that when you start your business and become your own boss, that will become your dream life, like the laptop lifestyle. We unintentionally consume the picture that entrepreneurship is the ideal.

However, in my opinion, that narrative is not entirely true and anyone who tries to convince you that it is, they’re lying. The reality is that entrepreneurship comes with both highs and lows, but I believe it’s still worth it.

Another observation I’ve made, from my clients and industry peers, is the expectation that entrepreneurship is a quick solution to making money and a quick way out of the 9-5 job that we hate. However, when we place such expectations on our business, it often leads to anxiety, frustration, and overwhelm. While it’s true that results can sometimes happen quickly, it’s important to develop the necessary skills and mindsets to navigate the emotional challenges that come with the journey.

Expectations like you’re going to give yourself a one year timeline to make certain income goals. And it seems like one year is like a pretty good or long time period. But if your end goal really is entrepreneurship, it’s going to be a lifelong goal. Why would you put a one year timeline on it?

How can that one year timeline inadvertently create a toxic and unhealthy relationship with our business? Because you’re constantly demanding immediate results like a $10K month, while the reality is that our businesses may still be in their early stages of growth, much like a toddler.

Clara:

This is something I’ve thought about. When I first left law, there was a part of me that wanted to overcompensate for the fact that in society, being a lawyer is seen as more reputable and respectable than being a fitness coach. There was a part of me that felt that I needed to earn five figures, match my pay and consistently exceed my pay. So that I will still be respected and people wouldn’t look down on me for leaving law.

After that, I thought, my goal is to have fun! I didn’t put a timeline on it. Now, I’m just super chill about everything. What’s gonna come, will come. I’ve adopted a very peaceful mentality.

I think it’s also because I started off strong and I have nothing to worry about right now. But I don’t know how I will respond if I have months where I’m not signing new clients. So I need to mentally prepare myself for that.

Learning how to coach myself on my mindset has really helped because I have the tools in place. And I also know that people are attracted to energy from my experience.

When I first got back to Europe, I was down and anxious. I could see the difference in my content, between the time when I first came back and after that. When I first came back, my content was more formal. I felt awkward watching it. But after that, I had a picnic with my friends outdoors and got some photosynthesis, I felt better. Suddenly I was so energetic and people were telling me that I look so much happier.

There was even this guy who randomly messaged me to tell me he realized I looked happier and asked what I was doing. I guess that’s the effect of self coaching, working on my mindset and protecting my time and energy.

Cheryl:

One of my current hypotheses that’s been brewing in my mind these days is, a lot of, especially business coaches will say that you shouldn’t look at your business like a passion project or think of it as a side hustle.

I understand why they’re trying to use that language, and the intention they’re trying to convey. But one thing I’m seeing more and more of is, why are you hitting on passion projects and side hustles? The kind of relationship where we have a passion project or side hustle, it’s a pretty healthy one! We’re doing it because we want to nurture and grow it, and grow as a person.

But when we look at it business, now you’re taking it seriously. But if you aren’t managing your mind, what are the consequences of taking your business seriously?

One thing I’m trying to cultivate more through the podcast is creating a culture where your business can make a ton of money and help a ton of people AND it can still feel like a passion project that you just do because you want to. And you still get paid for helping people. They’re not mutually exclusive.

I think a lot of the time the thoughts you have about your business can make or break you.

Why Clara decided to work with Cheryl in 2021

Cheryl:

Why did you initially decide to work with Cheryl back in 2021? Was there something about me or my approach? Or my message that resonated with you? Or who I am?

Clara:

Actually, I’m not even sure why I reached out in the first place. Because when I first hopped on the sales call, I mentioned I don’t know what I’m doing with my life. I was very confused. I was transitioning between graduating from law school and studying for the bar exams and practicing as a lawyer.

Honestly, I don’t even know where I was going with my business. I might as well just shut it down. I wanted to give up on it totally because I didn’t see a point in continuing. At the time, it felt like a chore to post on social media.

But I just felt a pull as I was listening to Cheryl’s podcast and seeing her content. I decided to hop on a sales call and see what’s the big deal about Cheryl Theory. 

I remember that Cheryl was super calm. And she just kept staring at me…

By the way, this is Cheryl’s coaching approach. She just stares at you until you form your own thoughts. 

So she was just staring at me and she had this super calm energy, she was like, “Skay, so you wanna leave a business now?”. I can’t remember the exact words, but the gist of it is, “So you wanna leave your business now. But what if I show you what’s possible for you within the next few months?”

Cheryl:

Wait, no, that was not my exact sentence. No, no, no, no, no. No, it was not “I’m gonna show you what’s possible.”!

Clara:

Let me clarify. Maybe it was something along the lines of, “What if you give up now that you never know what’s possible?”. Is it along those lines? 

Cheryl:

No! Let me tell the people what I remember. Because my own story is very similar to Clara’s. 

When she first approached me about potentially working together, she was just about to start her law training and one of the major pain points for her at the time was that she didn’t know if she could manage both law and her business. Because all the other people around her were saying, “You’re not gonna have time.”. And all of them neglect their own health and things like that and Clara’s in the health and fitness space.

At the same time, you were also grappling with your relationship with social media. Those two things combined, from my memory at least, you were wondering if you should move forward or not.

I remember on my end of the sales call, not only that that reminded me of myself, because when I started my PhD in August 2020, I had the exact same thought process of whether I can manage a full time PhD and my coaching business, which honestly wasn’t seeing much results at that point in time. 

Because back in August to November 2020, I signed no clients. Very similar or almost identical pain points that Clara was going through when she first approached me. 

I remember thinking that it was like deja vu. It was like my story, but just packaged differently. I also remember wondering why she was on this call with me, if she’s saying all these things?

I actually asked you on that call, why are you even doing law? Why are you doing business? Why are you even on this call? Because I was so confused as the person on the other end.

I think that might have sparked something. I also mentioned thatI had to coach myself on having a business on top of managing a full-time PhD. When I first started my PhD, there were all these other PhD students I see online, they’re struggling PhD students. They’re broke or their stipend doesn’t help them make ends meet and life is hard. They’re stressed as PhD students. How could I possibly think of even having a business on top of that?

I remember thinking and coaching myself through it. If I still wanted to do this, clearly, something is a little different about me. Maybe I’m a non-traditional PhD student.

So on our sales call, I just asked Clara, “Are you like those coworkers or other lawyers you told me about? Are you traditional like them?”. And I think that sparked something for you.

Clara:

My sincerest apologies to listeners. I have one job and I messed it up. But yes, Cheryl is correct. 

I remember it now. Because you asked me about being a non-traditional PhD student. And I remember telling you that I’m a non-traditional law student. In my first year, I played six sports, and represented my university in two more sports. After that, I realized that I don’t have to be everyone else. I think that was why I said that you said you would show me what’s possible for me.

Cheryl:

You were answering that question for yourself. I didn’t say anything. You answered that for yourself.

Clara:

Maybe that’s what I thought in my head, but not what you said.

Cheryl:

I feel like what’s happening is you thought I changed your mindset, but you did that for yourself.

Clara:

Yeah, I think because that’s what I eventually thought. What I took away from the call was that if I didn’t try, I would never know what’s possible for me. This is also the eventual outcome.

What happened when I did try while studying for my exams was I almost matched my income as a first year lawyer at the law firm I was in. I showed myself what’s possible for me. And if I didn’t work with Cheryl and I just gave up, I will probably still be in law now. I wouldn’t have created this second option for myself where I could have just easily made that transition.

Cheryl:

When I put my coach brain on here, like an observer hat, one thing I want to acknowledge Clara for is that she broke her own brain for what’s possible. She had all these thoughts about, “I don’t know if I can do it.”, but she still did it anyway.

You can doubt yourself, you can question everything by yourself, feel stressed and feel like you’re a hot mess, but you can still get things done.

You can still pass your bar exam, you can still talk about how you can help people through your coaching program. You can still find clients and you can still coach your clients, you can make a lot of money and have a huge impact while thinking terrible things about yourself.

What are your thoughts?

Clara:

Yes, I totally agree. Taking action helped me manage self doubt as well. Because when you take action, you give your brain evidence that you can do it, which is the same in health and fitness.

Let me put my health and fitness coaching brain on now.

I have clients who tell me that they can’t wake up consistently at 6am to workout, but after working with me, they start doing it. And I think what needs to happen is to take action first and then the motivation happens. You give yourself evidence you’re capable. So it’s the same thing here right? 

Please feel free to DM me at @shredthatcheese. I’m still accepting clients. You can be my 10th, 11th or 12th client.

I don’t know where that came from lol. Let’s continue.

Cheryl:

Okay, anyways, thank you for that quick advertisement break. Lol.

What else do we want to talk about for today? I feel like we’re all over the place.

Fun questions: Tattoos, working with Cheryl (hint: lots of staring) and favorite memories

Cheryl:

Now fun questions. Clara, what are your hobbies? Outside of work/business? Tell us.

Clara:

One thing I’ve been really trying to do is to just be more like the child. For those of you watching the Instagram Live, I actually got a Tamagotchi tattooed on my arm.

Cheryl, did you notice that?

Cheryl:

I noticed that. But I didn’t realize it was new. Because a few days ago, I met Clara for the first time since she went on her Europe, scavenger whatever. I didn’t notice this because it looks darker. The ink on her arm right now definitely is very fresh. I was like, “Oh, maybe I totally missed it last time. I saw her a few months ago.”. But yes, tell us more.

Clara:

Yeah, so I got this tattoo right before I left for Europe. The reason why I got a Tamagotchi and then there’s a girl there. So instead of the usual blob thing, and the pet that just shits everywhere, it’s me in the Tamagotchi!

What it’s supposed to symbolize is to have more fun in business and in life. And that is supposed to be a childlike version of me, but I’m not sure it looks like a child. It’s to remind me to unleash more of my inner child and to have fun. And also the buttons represent that I’m in control of my life, myself and my thoughts and my feelings, like how you’re in control of your Tamagotchi pet.

My hobbies or interests are doing things that make me feel more like a child. Like recently I started going on picnics. On my Instagram, I say stuff like, “Remember to go and photosynthesize because you are plants. Like doing things in the sun, like just walking around, picnicking, going to the beach, skating in the sun.”

I guess that’s my hobby. Like to just be a plant to get my photosynthesis in.

Is that considered a hobby? Or a natural life process?

Okay, I like skating. Yes, that’s my hobby.

Let’s make things simple.

Cheryl:

How many tattoos do you have?

Clara:

Ah, six.

Cheryl:

What are they?

Clara:

Okay, so sit down guys get ready, this is gonna be a long one.

Cheryl:

No more business for today, just tattoos.

Clara:

I have one girl on my ribcage with a watering can and flowers around her. It’s supposed to represent the quote “the grass is greener where you water it”. Instead of always looking to the other side being discontent with your life, be content with what you have and make the most out of it.

Then I have mountains and birds to symbolize my time in New Zealand where I took my first solo trip and that’s what changed everything for me because I met all these like nomads and people who’ve been traveling for like a year. And I was like I can do that?! 

It felt like an alternative reality because right before that point, I was just in Singapore, so I was kind of in a bubble. I didn’t really see that there were other ways of living your life.

The mountains represent New Zealand and freedom. And there’s a sun which represents the quote “When you have good thoughts, they will radiate out of you like sunbeams and you will always look lovely.” by Roald Dahl. It symbolizes having good energy, being radiant and having good thoughts about people and about life. 

Cheryl:

Was that all six?

Clara:

Oh, I have one on my thigh that says “Enough”. Like, you are enough.

Those are my values in life. I guess I’m like a sticker book at this point. I’ll just show my body to my grandkids and be like, here are the life lessons and wisdom I will impart to you. Look at my body!

Cheryl:

You’re gonna be a badass granny. At some point.

Oh wow, it seems like each of those had a meaning or thought behind.

Only one out of four of mine has been carefully thought out.

For those who might be watching the video form of this conversation, I’m now showing my wrist which has a leaf. I got this when I was 20, when I was going through a rough patch in university. And I thought, you know what, we can always start over a new leaf or like turn over a new leaf, hence the leaf.

But then all my other tattoos which are much larger, those had zero thought, it was all for aesthetic. So there you have it!

Maybe we have time for like one or two more questions. Okay, we’re gonna jump back into business. 

So, Clara, for people who might be thinking about working with Cheryl inside her coaching programs. What would you say to them? Please say nice things.

Clara:

Cheryl is buying me a cocktail later so I’ve been forced to say nice things. Hahaha. She is holding me hostage right now. In a meeting room and a co-working space. You said that you won’t let me out until I say nice things so…

Cheryl:

Just say what you want.

Clara:

Okay, I’m just kidding everyone. Hahaha LOL.

Blink once if you need help for those who are watching the video.

What was I gonna see? Okay.

Cheryl:

My face is all red because I’m frickin’ sweating from laughing. Try not to get my mascara wet.

Anyways continue.

Clara:

Oh, yes. Please work with Cheryl. She’s so calm. Like she doesn’t even need to say much. And I think that’s the best part about her coaching.

She just stares at you.

Cheryl:

I’m not disagreeing.

Clara:

She just stares at you and you somehow just work the thoughts out on your own.

After every coaching call, I can have a lot of mind drama. When I go on the call, I’m like, “Cheryl!! This is happening!!” Then suddenly, after the call, I’m enlightened, because she makes things feel simple. 

Like it’s not easy, but it’s simple.

For example, I would stress out about what offers I want to put out and she’ll be like just pick one. Until now, what she has taught me still works for me.

Remember I had that coaching call where I was like should I do hybrid or should I do online?? I hopped on the coaching call with her, then after, I went for a walk. Then I came back and I just drew a mind map. And I was like, why was I worrying about this for the whole week?!

Her approach is just really simple. It makes me feel like it changes the way you think about things. It’s not just like she gives you a method. But she’s coaching you on how to think. This is something that’s really valuable because you can apply it for the rest of your life and for the rest of the lifespan of your business.

Even though I’m not working with her right now, the things that she says will still come up for me. And the staring face of course, like the eyes, the beady eyes.

Cheryl:

Beady eyes?!

Clara:

Like just do the bare minimum and be really consistent at it.

Cheryl:

If I were to add on a little bit of my own take on this, when Clara mentioned.. When you said like, I help you to think for yourself and your business. I think the way I look at it is like, I could tell you what I think you should do. But if you’re not going to do it, you’re not going to do it and you’re not going to get anywhere.

So I rather you choose what you want to sell and how you want to sell. I rather coach you to make your plan of action that you’re actually going to stick to and as a result that’s why you can sign clients, right?

I’d much rather you pick a plan of action that you’re actually going to do and make money and help people than me making my best guess based on my own experience, my own schedule, my own personality and my own circumstances, which are not directly  identical to yours.

I rather train you to think for yourself and throughout the process after you decide on your game plan, we coach you to actually do it.

Because if you don’t do it, you’re not going to make money and help people.

Anything else? 

Clara:

Work with Cheryl. I highly recommend working with Cheryl.

Cheryl:

Nice.

Clara:

Can I get an extra cocktail?

Cheryl:

Oh my God. I did not. I’ll buy you a cocktail. But it’s not because I got you to do this podcast interview with me. 

Anyways, okay. Let’s do one more fun question.

Tell us one embarrassing thing about yourself. And it cannot be a vanilla or safe answer.

Clara:

I’m not. Oh my God. I’m so stressed. You know when people ask you questions like this in an orientation camp. Like, what’s a fun fact about yourself? And I’m just like, I like bread. I like sleeping. That’s me right now. I’m very stressed. 

Cheryl, how about you share one first, so I can feel inspired?

Cheryl:

Maybe here’s an easier one. What’s your favorite memory of us outside of coaching? 

Clara:

Oh, it has to be the trampoline class. 

Cheryl:

Why? Say it’s gonna be embarrassing for me not, you know, it was just so fun.

Clara:

So we’ve mentioned a trampoline class, right? It’s like cardio, but you’re bouncing on a trampoline and trying to dance at the same time.

The video of us, we were really struggling to coordinate our limbs in the first five minutes, and we didn’t even look like we were attending the same class.

We were both in the video, but we just weren’t matching.

Cheryl:

And what did the instructors say to us after class?

Clara:

He told me that I was quite good. But Cheryl needed more work. Hehehe. I was a star student.

Cheryl:

I mean, you’re a health and fitness coach. And you’re a personal trainer. So you better have your shit together.

Clara:

Yeah, it was fun. That’s my favorite memory.

Cheryl:

My favorite memory of you is I think… Actually this is totally random. One of the things I remember a lot is when I first met you in person, because we were coaching online for a while and then all of a sudden I’m in Singapore. We met up one time for brunch and I realized you wore non-athletic outfits.

I realized you actually dress kind of cool in real life. You’re not just like athleisure or athletic wear. That really left a strong impression on my mind.

For those of you who are watching, oh, I guess you can see her OOTD but she’s wearing this corset thing.

Can you guys see her? Tattoo?

Okay, you guys have to watch a video replay of this. For those of you listening to the audio only, Clara just gave us a little booty shake.

Clara:

What was it? I can’t describe it. I have no idea what that was.

How to work with Clara

Cheryl:

Anyways, I think that is enough chaos for today.

Thank you so much for tuning in live, or on the podcast or any form of replay of this conversation. Clara thank you so so so much for doing this VOLUNTARILY out of your own kindness.

Clara:

I’m blinking once for help.

Cheryl:

I did not force her or coerce her to do this. For emphasis.

Any last thoughts or nice message you want to say to the people?

Clara:

Work with Cheryl.

Cheryl:

Say something else!

Clara:

That’s the third cocktail I’m getting tonight.

Cheryl:

Anyways, as you can see, this is the kind of relationship we now have when we’re not on the Zoom calls.

Actually, you know what, last question. How does this interaction, this dynamic right now in real time differ from our Zoom calls?

Very curious what you would say. 

Clara:

When you see Cheryl on Zoom, you just see a background of cats. And she’s just staring and typing.

Yeah, but I’m so glad that Cheryl’s in Singapore. I don’t think either of us expected this. It’s like we have a meeting on Zoom, then suddenly you’re in Singapore visiting and we met for brunch. And suddenly she’s living in Singapore.

Cheryl:

Let me just clarify that I stare a lot on the Zoom calls because I need to concentrate on what the client is saying.

But I’m actually a very somewhat interesting and fun person to talk to outside of Zoom. Clara might disagree. I don’t know.

Clara:

It felt more formal because it’s over Zoom. It feels just a bit more formal.

As a Singaporean, I felt intimidated by your accent.

Cheryl:

Why?????

Clara:

I don’t know! What if you don’t understand me? And then what if I suddenly forget and use Singlish?!

Cheryl:

I’m dating a Singaporean! Come on! 

Clara:

Okay, but I was not that into Cheryl’s personal life at that time. So I just knew that she lives in Hong Kong, left law and is also doing a PhD. That’s all I know. And that she stares a lot.

Cheryl:

Well, I’m glad you liked me enough to hop on a sales call with me. Now we’re here like a year later. 

Clara:

Look how the tables turn. 

Cheryl:

And now she’s dragging me to all these workout classes.

Clara:

Yes. And suddenly we are friends and we’re in a Tai Tai (Chinese colloquial term for a wealthy married woman who does not work) circle as well.

Cheryl:

Anyways, thank you Clara for being here for today.

To wrap up, how can people find you and how can people work with you?

Clara:

Okay, guys, this is the most important part of the entire podcast episode. Like fuck everything I said for like, I don’t know, the last one hour?

Cheryl:

40 minutes, 45 minutes.

Clara:

This is the most important part! Get out your pens and papers right now.

You can follow me on Instagram at @shredthatcheese.

The story behind @shredthatcheese is because in fitness they use the word get shredded. But I promote a healthy relationship with food and a healthy relationship with yourself because of my past experience with disordered eating and body image issues. So I wanted to make a play on the word “shredded”. Instead of getting shredded or get shredded with Clara, you’re shredding your body or shredding cheese.

Cheryl:

And that is a taste of Clara’s personality. How can people work with you?

Okay, just DM me on Instagram. I’m very friendly. 

Right now I have an online coaching program. If you are from anywhere in the world, you can work with me. I’m a very fun person.

I promise I don’t stare. This is coming up a lot. I don’t even know why. In my head, I’m just like associating Cheryl with staring.

Please come and work with me or just have a chat. Let’s just have a chat about your goals. Like how I hopped on a sales call with Cheryl without knowing what I wanted or what I was getting into. Let me show you. 

I have a very strong mission now since I decided to leave my full time job. My mission is to help busy people create a healthy routine they actually like so you can thrive. That means feeling alive, energetic and more focused in all areas of your life.

If you’re in Singapore, we can work something out, either one to one, face to face coaching or hybrid coaching.

Thank you.

Cheryl:

Alrighty, everyone, thank you, everyone on the Instagram Live. Thank you people who might be watching some sort of video version of this. Thank you to those of you who are tuning in on The Side Hustle Club Podcast. Thank you so much for being here and I’ll see you in the next one. 

Bye everyone.

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