Episode 163. Quit Story: How to Pursue an Unconventional Career & Entrepreneurship as an Asian Immigrant (Betty Xie)

A few years ago, Betty blew my mind when she shared the following metaphor:

“If you think about the fundamentals of a palette, you really just need the three basic colors – red, yellow and blue.

And if you have those three colors, you can make a thousand, millions different shades, all shades come from those three colors.

So bringing that parallel to talent, we just need what you already have, the shades that you already have to make a thousand different beautiful possibilities.”

THAT is the type of coach Betty is: She is a coach that advocates for people to be compassionate and kind to themselves, and to leverage what they DO have to create amazingness in this world.

Needless to say, Betty is brilliant and I am delighted to invite her onto the show to share not just other brilliant nuggets, but also to dive into her story

Episode 163 of The Thought Leader Club Podcast (featuring Betty) is now available on iTunes, Spotify, and YouTube.

In This Episode:

Growing up in different cultures/locations, immigrant parents, and the other early experiences that shaped Betty into who she is today
The decision to go into the humanities and to pursue postgraduate studies
The multiple hats that Betty wears, including filmmaker, fundraising consultant, coach, business owner, and many more
Who Betty works with as a coach
The entrepreneur identity and taking risks
Conversations about creating an award-winning podcast, being proud of who you are today and dry shrimp

Growing up in different cultures/locations, immigrant parents, and the other early experiences that shaped Betty into who she is today

Cheryl:

All right. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Thought Leader Club podcast. We are doing a quick story interview today with Betty. Some of you may recognize Betty, whether it’s from the podcast or from my Instagram, but you’ve probably heard Betty’s name here on the show before.

Before we get started with our conversation with Betty, I want to do a quick recap of what the “Quit Story” is.

So essentially the Quit Story series on the show. It’s really to talk to people from all walks of life and talk about their quit story and again, quitting can look different for everyone.

It could look like leading a prestigious career path. It could look like leaving a relationship that wasn’t working out, changing your lifestyle, quitting a certain identity.

It can look like many, many things.

That said, the common thread among quit stories is that the individual is really defining their own version of success instead of doing what they were told to do or being who they were told that they were supposed to be.

It also involves oftentimes choosing courage over fear when it comes to really uncertain or challenging situations. Also it involves making decisions based on your values and choosing what matters most to you.

That is the essence of the series on the show.

Without further ado, let me segue way over to our guest for today, Betty.

Betty, could you start us off by introducing yourself, please?

Betty:

Hi Cheryl, it’s great to be on your podcast again and really excited for this conversation.

So I’m Betty. I am a filmmaker, fundraising consultant and career coach for creatives. And as you heard in that kind of multi-prong description of a career, I self-diagnose as a multi-passionate and I also help creatives to find their path and as well as other multi-passionates to define who they are. And in some way we’re connected to the theme of this podcast, which is to redefine what success looks like.

And I also had worked with Cheryl before in her one-on-one coaching program and I’m very excited to be back on the podcast.

Cheryl:

Yeah, you know what, let’s start here. Since you mentioned that you are very multi passionate. I’m really curious to know, do you remember when or how you first realized that you are multi passionate and there are many parts that you might potentially want to wear?

Like, do you remember when you first had that gut feeling?

Betty:

I probably didn’t used to be multi-passionate back then, but in high school I was the student that was both interested in the arts and mathematics.

So I thought at the time, that’s interesting. I feel like after immigrating to Canada, I immigrated when I was 13, I was still adapting to that culture here.

One of the things I realized is that people often draw a line between people in math and science and people who work in the arts, especially because the arts like these are elective, even in high school, which was not in China, like you either have art class or you don’t.

So that was when I started getting the hint that I am multi-passionate, but also didn’t have any kind of intentional thought around how that would impact my career. I did not think about that aspect.

Cheryl:

I think backtrack a bit. Where were you born and where did you grow up before age 13?

Betty:

I was born in Guangzhou, China, and I immigrated to Vancouver at the age of 13. Richmond, B.C., to be specific. When I finished high school there, I went to University of Toronto and moved to Toronto and have since lived and worked there.

But right now, at this very moment, I’m also working remotely and being a digital nomad in Asia.

Cheryl:

Okay, I have so many questions now. So I think my brain is going in two different directions.

On one hand, I want to ask about your notions or perceptions of career when you were younger. And I also want to ask about immigrating to Canada.

So let me let me choose one direction.

Let’s start with career.

Given that you were born in China, Guangdong, China, your family is Chinese. What were the messages that you might have been given by family or culture or society back then about what were you supposed to do or who you were supposed to be like?

Do you recall any of that kind of messaging?

Betty:

Interestingly enough, my family, I would say in retrospect, is very unconventional. I remember growing up, a lot of the messages given to me were like, you can just be an average, successful person. You don’t need to aim for the top of the top because that would be difficult.

A lot of pressure growing up was actually self-imposed. I think less from my family, but my education system. Because I grew up in China, lots of things were like mock base and performance based. And since I was in elementary school, we had rankings of how good everybody is, relative to each other, according to our academic performance.

I maybe naturally just like to perform well, like a lot of people. So whenever, you know, I remember like fussing about, even so, being number one, I’m number four, this time in exam and my mom will always be the person who will be like, “That does not matter in the grand scheme of things.”

So in fact, like, you know, I feel like it’s more of that perception about what success is, was from the education that I was given, in the general society and culture that I was living in.

Less from the family aspect.

Cheryl:

I see. Yeah. You know, I recall because I did my first two years of elementary slash primary school in Hong Kong. I still remember when it came to report cards. They would read out who got what number of A’s on the report cards. And I still remember I was always number two in those years of my education.

Cheryl was always number two in the class.

Anyway.

Now, let’s segue way over to when you immigrated to Canada. Do you remember, like any culture shocks or any drastic things that surprised you at that time?

Betty:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, that piece about what success looks like, no longer became so clear when I came to Canada.

Less people care about marks. People still care about marks. I went to a high school that was predominantly Asian because Richmond is a very immigrant town, I would say. I think over 60% or 80, 70%, even our school Asian students and so many overachieving mindset there and everybody was trying to do well.

However in general you have less of that like competition going on. Like it’s more about like, are you doing well relative to what the goals that you set for yourself?

And so for a while I was lost you know, where do I stand in terms of my academic performance? Because for so long that was my benchmark.

But then also after I got over the hump, it became really freeing in terms of being able to just look at, yeah, everybody wants to do different things. I want to do all these things. So overall it was good in that sense. Yeah.

Cheryl:

That’s such a profound realization for someone I’m assuming back in high school-ish years. I’m assuming around that time, it’s really profound for quite a young age.

Betty:

Yeah, well, I guess I guess, like, it’s just a hobby because when I was little, I was really gung ho to get top of the class and to, to be identified as that.

And then you go somewhere where that means nothing to anybody. It doesn’t make you, like, more popular in school. It does not make you have more friends or it does not make you fit anymore.

And then now, as a teenager, you have to re-navigate. I feel like our system, our minds are always re-navigating. What’s the survival mechanism here?

Cheryl:

Then in that case, when you went to post-high school education, so university, did this mentality continue to hold or were you…? Because one thing that I hear from people is that maybe they were doing good in high school, but then when they go to university, everyone’s like at a different level of achievement.

When you were now put into the university context, did your perception of, “Who I’m supposed to be”, shift at all? Or were you so really in tune with figuring out who you want to be?

Betty:

So I have very strong memories of going from high school to university, because my original goal was to go to an Ivy League.

I studied really hard for two years for the SATs. That journey for me, I feel like it was even more memorable than someone who’s a natural English speaker growing up in Canada.

But the deal that I made with my parents was always that if I got into one of those schools that gave me full scholarship, I would go, because my family does not have the means to pay tens of thousands, 100K for my undergraduate.

So again there was a story of like self-imposed pressure. No one really asked me to do that, but I really wanted to. I think also there’s the culture shock and adapting to a new life in Canada. I wanted to even go to a further place to explore my identity, and my life and possibility.

The result of that was I actually got into some schools. I got into like NYU, Berkeley, but none of those schools were giving me enough of a scholarship to cover the expense.

So with the knowledge of that, I had to make a choice to stay in Canada.

And that’s a long story short.

The decision to go into the humanities and to pursue postgraduate studies

Betty:

I guess that’s why that pivotal moment. I remember coming back home one day and realized that I would now stay in Canada and not go for any of those top programs that I wanted to, and had a huge cry. And feel like I failed somehow because I got to some schools, but not my top choices, and that after that moment, it shifted everything.

I was like, well, then I’m not going to. Because I originally applied for the math program and business program. This is the opportunity for me to ask now, what do I really want to do in my life?

Instead of choosing what I deemed might lead to a successful career or what might lead to a good career where I can provide for my family, what do I want to do?

That’s when I made the decision to transfer from business school at U of T (University of Toronto), where I already got accepted, to humanities.

Cheryl:

What really stood out to me in your sharing is actually there were a few nuggets that really resonated with me because I also applied to American schools when I was going from high school to university.

I actually also got to Berkeley, which was my dream school at that time.

Betty:

We could have met there, in an alternate universe.

Cheryl:

Well, it’s crazy because we both went to U of T. Yes. And we could have both gone to Berkeley.

Betty:

Yes. Oh my God.

We might have met somewhere either way.

Cheryl:

Yeah! I can only imagine how back when we were like 16, 17, all we really knew was like university applications and what do we do after graduating high school. To work so hard and then kind of like not make the goal that we had, it can feel crushing at that time.

So when you said that you had a big cry that day. I was like, it was bringing up a lot of memories for me also. And I’m sure for a lot of listeners right now, who identify as high achievers, very hard working people, they probably had some sort of similar experience where they worked really hard. They did all the right things. They did well. Just didn’t pan out the way that we expected.

Yeah, and I thought it was really cool how you switched from business school to humanities, because that’s… Actually I have a question.

When you think about the department that you were in, in the humanities, were there a lot like demographically, were there a lot of… This is going to sound really stereotypical of me, but…

Betty:

Were there a lot of Asians?

Cheryl:

Yeah, yeah. Basically that was my question!

Betty:

The first year I was at University of Toronto, I took a lot of different classes – English Literature, Drama, Cinema Studies and some social science classes.

No, not a lot of Asians at Cinema Studies at the time. I could count with one hand.

English literature. Probably more.

But yeah, it’s definitely a minority spectrum.

Cheryl:

I’m so curious to know, when you were in university and you made that transition, did you ever feel less than, in a sense? Because for most Asian people we were kind of told to go to the sciences or business or something like that, or engineering.

Do you ever feel a little bit out of the box in that sense?

Betty:

It was definitely out of boxes. Even my family, they’re pretty artistic, they were like, wow, that’s bold.

And recently, actually, I never shared this publicly. My mom and I were chatting. She told me that a lot of her friends at the time had asked her, why would you allow your daughter to make that decision?

And I said, well mom, you never told me. She was like, “Why would I tell you? That would just give you pressure.” And I was like, so why didn’t you talk to me?

Because apparently one of her friends even said, like you have to give her some pressure, because they’re kids. You have to stop them from making wrong decisions in life.

And my mom was like, trying to think about what her rationale is at a time when I interviewed her back.

And she said, you know, I didn’t bring her to immigrate, like the family didn’t bring her to immigrate so that she deals with all that pressure again. It was really about having a freedom of life.

And I was really touched thinking that I was so proud of my mom. Mom, I love you.

Why did I share that story?

I feel like my family actually protected me in those moments and I fully felt the freedom of exploring. At the back of my mind was like, if this doesn’t pan out, I can go back to do my math degree.

Cheryl:

Oh my God, I, I don’t know if anyone can see it. If you zoom in, you can probably see a little tear in the corner of my eye.

I don’t know why I’m so touched right now.

Wow, that is so much respect for both you, and your mom for really protecting your dreams and your decisions and having your back. That is beautiful.

I’m curious to know, like, what do you think your mom saw in you?

This is totally off script, by the way. I’m so curious to know, like, what do you think your mom saw a new

Because she could have been like, you know what, my daughter does not have any talent in this industry. I should probably tell her to change back to math or something.

She must have seen something in you, whether it’s talent or grit or something. What do you think she saw?

Betty:

Grit is a good word. Because even in sharing this out loud, I’m thinking, probably somewhere along in my life, I asked my parents why don’t you give me more pressure like so-and-so’s parents?

And they are like, well, don’t you think that you already give yourself enough?

So they were also kind of assessing. I feel like I had been a kid that was not trying it all, they would probably intervene. I feel like my mom felt that I deserve a chance to explore what I want.

And also she knew her kid was someone who could, if she put her mind to something, she would actually work on it instead of taking it really lightly. Yeah.

The multiple hats that Betty wears, including filmmaker, fundraising consultant, coach, business owner, and many more

Cheryl:

And I know this was a relatively recent conversation with you and your mom. But do you feel like since that conversation, it has now shaped maybe the coaching that you do today with your clients?

Betty:

Great question.

Since I became a coach, I think I just became more in tune with my own history of my perception. Because in order to coach other people about their perception of career, I also do a lot more self reflection now.

So every time that I feel like I’m always peeling myself as an onion. Every time I peel another layer, I’m like, how does that apply to our general thought of, “What does everybody think, other than me?”

So it probably has a subconscious impact that way.

Cheryl:

Yeah. I asked that question because I was wondering, you know, how many of your clients do you think struggle with… like they may not have that sense of support from people around them the way you did.

I think the imagery in my head right now is, how are you filling in that gap for a lot of your clients? Because your clients are in the creative sector and maybe for some of them, people around them just don’t get it.

Maybe, maybe.

So I was just wondering since you had that really profound interaction with your mom, has that helped you become even more empathetic? I was just really curious about that.

Betty:

Definitely. So like you said, I coach clients that are primarily working in the creative field and definitely along in their path, whether it’s their family and the society or other friends, they’re having some narrative of being misunderstood.

It’s always present in their career path. Alongside that, I guess the new perspective I gain is that with the narrative of being misunderstood, that also comes with the narrative of support.

So if you’re misunderstood by someone, necessarily, if you arrive at this place, you also get support from not necessarily one person, but yourself or people who believe in you.

In the coaching world, of course I’m there to supply them support and encourage them, like you can do this. It’s also uncovering those narratives of when we are down, when we are in a place of feeling discouraged, we always only notice our sigh of being misunderstood.

But also what about the place of strengths, the place where they got support for themselves? What were those inner voices that got them to where they got to today, and make the choices, albeit difficult.

It is also my job to uncover with the clients so that they can find inner strength in those strengths among their network and their support group, so that beyond our work, they continue to find.

Cheryl:

Now I’m going to jump back to your story because what you shared reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you, which is along the lines of being misunderstood.

Were there any parts of your journey where you initially felt misunderstood yourself, but then you realize that this was just an identity or a self, just something that you had to quit?

You had to. That’s something that just isn’t you and that you need to let go of this notion.

Betty:

I eventually landed into the double major of Asia Pacific Studies and Cinema Studies. One is a social science degree, one is a humanities degree.

Essentially I interact with people who are film lovers and emerging filmmakers or interact with people who study international studies, they’re about to become, and Cheryl will know this reference, Trinity kids who are about to become aspiring politicians or lawyers, and they’re quite overachieving.

Between those two worlds, I always feel like there’s a little bit of, put down one hat and then wear another.

I was quite conscious that I even act differently, like going from the different physical locales of those two departments, because I wasn’t fully one or the other. That was another phase in my life that I realized I can wear multiple hats. I like this and that.

But some people were already quite certain. I don’t know how people are so certain so early. Like, okay, I’m going to go to law school after this. Or fully going to be a film academic.

I just did not have any degree of certainty. I knew that I was interested in all these things, but I did not have any degree of certainty that must be my path.

I remember there was like one class where everybody went around the circle and everybody was sharing their story and they all had an element of, “Growing up, I hate math, that’s why I’m here.”

That’s not my story. So I was very conscious that I was already 60% fitting in completely, and probably had some anxiety attached to, why does everybody seem to fully fit in? Looking back, of course, maybe everybody had that narrative in their minds.

But long story short, I feel like only after coming out to society and work, that I kicked the unnecessary, looking back unnecessary, but at a time, felt like a really real kind of mindset that I needed to completely be one or the other.

Cheryl:

I totally see how, you know, this kind of realization when you were still in university, then segway to the many different hats that you’ve worn professionally since graduating.

So could you give us an overview of what you have done since graduating from university?

Betty:

So since university, for a few years, I was working in film festivals, while developing my independent filmmaking career.

The thought was very much like, I want to be a filmmaker. I also want to build connections and community.

I know nobody in the film world because I’m an immigrant. My first employer, the Toronto Asian Film Festival, had a really great community and I got a lot of experience there. So I started working there.

And from there, I developed different contracts with different film festivals.

Now looking back, five, six years of working in that intense capacity like filmmaking, film festivals and I was also tutoring to supplement my income. I got really burned out. I had great employers, but then I was just like, “What am I doing?” Because I was working so much that I did not feel like I was even creatively inspired as a creator.

So at one point I thought, How do I even navigate any of this, my multi interests? Because now at that point, my career was at a bottleneck. I developed some skills as a fundraiser manager and all that stuff, but I still am a master of none. That’s when I went back to grad school and did a master degree in design thinking, strategic foresight and innovation.

You learn a way of thinking about business and change management. Along with that, I started branching out essentially, in my career, sort of working in a fundraising consultancy, not related to film at all. Simultaneously, that actually gave me more time to work on my own films, which I had a hint that that was going to happen.

And then the pandemic happened and that was at the tail end of grad school. I started to realize, just because I went to grad school, I didn’t change. I learn new skills. But what I was passionate about, didn’t change. The fact I was multi-passionate did not change.

I thought I would come well from grad school and be okay to go to a corporate job to do design thinking or something. That did not happen.

I really look inward. It was also around the time that I worked with a leadership coach and a therapist. What I was interested in was telling stories, still interested in making art. And one new interest I realized is supporting individuals to grow in their career journey. That was always the interest.

So I went to learn coaching, leadership coaching. Combined that with the stuff that I learned from grad school and started having the idea that I can really do this and to serve the people that I’m passionate about.

Fast forward 2022, I started doing all these multi-passionate things, full time on my own.

Who Betty works with as a coach

Cheryl:

Yeah, so many different paths I want to dive into. Okay, I’m going to pick one.

Tell us about the population that you now work with as a coach. So for context for people, if it wasn’t clear, Betty is a coach. Betty now coaches creatives. Could you tell us a little bit more context of what you coach on?

Betty:

So broadly speaking, I coach individuals who are creatives.

And so I have this definition of creatives. If you’re serious about your craft, in a discipline and you find creativity in there, that’s for me, a creative in my book.

I’ve coached people who are photographers, filmmakers. I’ve also coached people who are creative consultants, arts leaders working at nonprofits and such.

I have two programs. One program is called the Mindful Reinvention. It is for people who are kind of at the mid-career spot and they have an intuitive sense that this is the moment to pivot, but the pivot might look like completely changing industry or job. But also might look like something internal.

And last year launched a new program that’s called Design Your Lanes, which was very much in response to.

I realized more and more people who come to me realized they have multi-passion in their career lanes. I have this creative archetype quiz that people take. One of the results is that people who are parallel universes, they co-hold different universes, and this is like a huge ratio of people who took that quiz end up being that.

They come to me and they’re wondering how they can co-hold those different lanes and grow them simultaneously. That’s what the Design Your Lanes program is. It’s closer to a business coaching format and we do it in a more intensive way

Yeah, that’s where I am at. Two programs and broadly serving creative people.

Cheryl:

Okay, I know we’re doing the Quit Story interview. So what I’m hearing is that one program, the reinvention one, it’s more like quitting, shedding an identity that you’ve had for many, many years professionally. That’s kind of what I was picking up.

And then for the latter, you are quitting the notion that you need to do one thing and do it really, really well. You can’t be multiple parallel universes. You’re shedding that identity and embracing the parallel universes, as you said.

Cool. I was curious about that because I think that this will give the audience more context about what Betty does. But also, obviously I’m trying to connect all the Quit Stories that I can glean from this conversation. So that was that.

The entrepreneur identity and taking risks

Cheryl:

One thing that I’m really curious about is, you know, did you ever consider yourself an entrepreneur or an entrepreneurial person?

Like before you started your coaching business? Did you ever consider yourself entrepreneurial?

Betty:

The short answer is no. I’ve been told I’m entrepreneurial before I started coaching business, but never have any kind of like sentiment around that word. I neither feel good nor bad about it.

And I realized later, actually, side note, a lot of my clients are actually solopreneurs doing similar things like me. They run their own practice. They also don’t identify with that word. And I don’t know what it is.

Only after I ran my business full-time that I started embracing the entrepreneurial hat officially in my mind, but also started quitting some of the employee mindset.

Cheryl:

Yeah, I resonate with that also because I think although back when I was side hustling, I saw myself. I would tell myself, yeah, I’m an entrepreneur, I’m a side hustler.

But then when I thought back on it, I’m like, I would lean more towards a side hustler versus like an entrepreneur identity.

But ever since I became full-time in my business, that entrepreneur identity, for some reason it became more prevalent for me.

So I totally resonate with what you just said.

That said, I want to ask, since starting your coaching practice, were there any identities that you had to embrace and take on, since starting the business?

Betty:

The word that comes to mind is a serial risk taker. The identity. And I think this is related to the quitting employee mindset shift.

I wrote at the end of last year as part of my podcast episode and also the blog that once you start your business and you’re like, now it’s really happening. Now you’re really running it.

One thing I notice about myself is I get more comfortable with taking risks, not just in business, but also in life. That’s what led to some major decisions about trying digital nomad life.

Because once you do it and you realize you’re okay, and you might not be successful every time about the risks that you take, but you realize that you are not mentally dead or you’re not in danger.

Because that’s what we think when we take risks. Like, this is very dangerous. Our survival mechanism comes in and you’re like, I can take another risk. I can try that new thing.

That’s the biggest thing that I embrace, which I’d never really considered. I have never really considered it. I consider myself adventurous in some life and career decisions, but I would never have thought up to the point, in my business, that I’m a serial risk taker.

Cheryl:

Yeah, you’re a risk taker. That’s a great phrase. Very quotable. Totally. See a quote like a caption graphic coming out of this.

You know that that leads me to another thing I was wondering, which is, you mentioned, risk taking. I feel like some of the audience members listening to this right now might hear serial risk taker.

And in the context of starting your business or becoming an entrepreneur. And they’re terrified of just the notion of risk.

I was wondering if you have any words of advice to anyone who feel like they have a spark of entrepreneurial spirit in them or maybe they just want to start creating something online, or maybe they want to start a business, but maybe no one around them is entrepreneurial or are entrepreneurs. So they just don’t have examples nearby.

What would you say to someone who might be feeling a little bit scared but they want to do something?

Betty:

The first thing I would say is that, I would caveat why we ask this, what you’re raising. It’s really real in my coaching, it happens all the time.

Why are they imagining the risks that they’re taking?

Because there are different kinds of risks. Like even I say that I’m a risk taker now. I’m not taking reckless risk because I think that’s where people’s mind comes to.

Like, quit my job tomorrow and pursue this passion project. In practice, I’ve met very few people who have done that without some kind of reassurance. So take calculated risks.

If we can align that we are going to take calculated risk, then my advice is that chances are we’ve all been, even if we’re not entrepreneurs and you don’t identify with that word, we’ve all in some way in our life have had experience of creating something out of nothing.

So especially the people that I coach, they’re creatives. They’re doing that daily. They are imagining something and then they create it, turn it into art.

There’s something very entrepreneurial about that. Like you’re able to perceive an idea, envision an idea and turn it into reality.

That’s also applicable to people who are in different industries. What is some evidence in your past that you have taken risks or you have turned a vision into something tangible? And grounding yourself in those strengths and then just ask what is that immediate first step that makes you feel a little bit scared but not completely threatening?

Because we won’t grow or we won’t really sustain the action plan if we always feel that our scare level is up here, ten out of ten.

It’s got to be something that is a little bit scary but not so scary that it freezes you.

Cheryl:

What was something in your coaching practice or entrepreneurship journey thus far, that was at one point it felt really big, but then you took like a small step towards.

What was something that used to terrify you and felt huge, but now you’ve built your confidence in?

Betty:

I have to think for a couple of seconds about that question.

I can think of an example from the consulting practice I do. I guess it’s like a little bit of coaching too.

I used to, I think at the beginning, when people, potential client interests come to me and they explore a project with me that I don’t have with the existing program to offer in response.

I haven’t done that before. I can see why you came to me, but I don’t know because there’s a lot of complexity to navigate with this project. My default response used to be, just say no.

Obviously, there’s a part in you that you’re like, wow, this could be amazing. But there would be a lot to navigate and learn and stretch yourself. There’s even a little bit of imposter syndrome kicking in. I’m like, why do they come to me?

That used to be very unpleasant for me because I just kind of freeze. And I noticed that I’m aware of what I call fear of success. You’re at the threshold of trying something new and amazing, but you freeze.

Now my comfort level is much higher. Sometimes it’s still not a fit. When people come to me and I don’t have something that’s in a box, pick this program. But some new projects I work on, both on the consulting and coaching, have evolved to be like, wow, that’s really amazing! I am so glad that we customized something and even the Design Your Lanes program came from that. I feel like I’m much more attuned and open to that now.

Cheryl:

That ties in nicely with the notion you said earlier, which is creating something out of nothing. That ties in very nicely with that take away earlier.

Conversations about creating an award-winning podcast, being proud of who you are today and dry shrimp

Cheryl:

Cool. Now I want to segue into… Also on this podcast, we talk a lot about building a body of work and building thought leadership. I’m super curious to know what would you say you’re most known for right now, as of today? What are you most known for?

Betty:

I’m most known for coaching people who have a creative passion but also have embarked on a creative path, but don’t feel seen.

Cheryl:

And why do you think or how did you become known for that? For the audience who’s like, I want to be known for something. What are some practical tips you can offer to help them become known for what they want to be known for?

Betty:

Well, one of the practical tips I would offer is that if you feel very unequipped with that, go hire Cheryl and join her program. That’s what I did.

It would be dishonest if that was not a huge help because I know that I have done public speaking, I’m comfortable with certain things, but I’m not very good about putting myself out there on social media. That was the thing.

So identify what you’re good at and not good at. For things that you’re not good at and there are people who are good at that, go learn from them, right?

And the other thing that emerged from our work and also I feel that has been locking me even more after we worked together, over these last couple of years.

I realized the body of work that one feels or your body of thought leadership, does not just come from suddenly, you have to sit down and write a social media post. It came from your whole life. It came from the moment that you started working. So things that you take for granted that are not interesting to other people or perspectives that you have that we’re like, “Of course everybody thought about that”

You are really acting like a scientist or detective, Really? Second, why do I think about it that way?

Or does anybody think about this? Maybe talk out loud with other people and that’s when you realize, I do have some unique perspective because of my lived or work experience.

Everybody essentially has their body of work and everybody has their thought leadership in that regard.

Cheryl:

I really, really love that point about, you know, finding thought leadership from your lived experiences, from your story.

That’s really where we should all start, because that is something that is, for lack of a better word, is your truth. It’s just something that no one else can take away from or negate or even argue with you on. It’s your lived experience. So start there first.

And to quickly touch on a point about earlier, you mentioned imposter syndrome.

For anyone who might be feeling like I don’t even know what to talk about, I feel like I’m not good enough to talk about it. Continue building those skills and practical experiences.

But start with your story. That’s something that’s so true to you and it is going to be the thing that shapes the work that you do moving forward.

So I really am a huge fan of what you just said.

I’m gonna do a little spin here. The last time I saw Betty was in New York, New York City, for a podcast award event.

So Betty, tell the people, what did you win that day?

Betty:

The category is a little bit like long-winded. I always have long-winded titles. But the podcast title is not long winded. So I host a podcast called The Everyday Talent Podcast, which is there to share stories of, what I like to call the messy middle for creative paths. And it won the Best Creativity award at the Golden Crane Awards, hosted by the Asia America Podcaster Association, alongside Cheryl’s podcast there.

Cheryl:

I would love to know.. I didn’t get to ask you this that day that we met. But now I get to ask you, I’m so curious. Looking back, we know the result. You won the award, but why do you think your podcast is so good?

What made your podcast so deserving? I checked out your podcast before, so I know it’s good. From your perspective, what makes your body of work such a good body of work?

Betty:

I think that right from the beginning I felt that alignment with this focus of the topic. So if I were to wear a critique hat and look at my podcast, essentially I think that combination of being able to tell stories of creative people who do not necessarily have to be this overwhelming, always a success story and being really open about their struggle in the middle.

That’s already like a good starting point.

One feedback I often get from people is that they also appreciate that it’s not just like an interview podcast. It’s not purely just an interview podcast. And it’s also not really someone who’s just talking about their insights. It’s a balance of both.

Last year, I even started doing one segment where people just share their daily routine.

The podcast has different formats within itself that cater to, if today you’re looking for some insights, here are some episodes. If you’re looking for a good conversation with a creative, here’s an episode. If you just have 7 minutes but you want to hear someone how they start their day, here’s an episode.

So that combination of the positioning and the content is what makes it good.

And this makes me uncomfortable talking about how good the podcast is as well.

Cheryl:

That’s also a side note for everyone. Go check out the podcast, The Everyday Talent Podcast.

I think one more final question I would love to poke at or ask before we segue into the final segment of today, which is some rapidfire fun questions.

I want to know. I think it’s twofold.

The first part of the question is, are you proud of who you are today and what you do?

And I also want to ask you, looking back at your life thus far, like what’s a moment that you’re really proud of but maybe we didn’t touch on so far in this conversation.

Betty:

I am extremely proud of my journey up to this point. Coming to this interview and knowing the theme is Quit Story… I think for a long time, probably in my twenties, I probably wouldn’t say that I’m proud of my career and how things would go in the messy journey that you’ve heard.

And being able to quit that phase is nice and arrive at this place.

Cheryl:

You made it, Betty! You made it! You did it!

Betty:

There’s no one moment of, it’s like, that’s it. Right?

But I’ve made it internally, like an internal piece. I made that.

In terms of one moment that’s very defining, right now, I just got married in the fall.

One good friend of mine always says, you always do something radical when it seems like it’s the moment to stabilize. I basically decided to build a family and I’m like, let’s go off and take four or five months and try this new lifestyle. And I’m proud of, again, going back to the risk taking, like it’s calculated risk.

But I’m proud of myself for continuously being able to throw myself into new experiences to learn and stretch myself. I have no doubt that this period right now, trying the digital nomad life, looking back, will be a defining moment in my career and life and married life as well.

Cheryl:

Very wholesome. So wholesome. I love this.

Okay, so as we transition to the final segment, which is going to be rapid fire, totally unscripted, random questions for us to get to know Betty a little bit more.

I’m literally going to make up some questions on the spot.

Betty:

Oh really? Okay. Let’s go.

Cheryl:

It is not anywhere on my Google Docs.

Okay. I actually did ask Betty this question when I saw you in New York and we were having cocktails after the awards ceremony, but I forgot your answer. So I’m going to ask you again.

What’s your least favorite food?

Betty:

Least favorite food I do not like. I don’t know what I said on the spot at that time.

But I do not like dry shrimp.

Cheryl:

That’s a strange answer.

Betty:

There’s no elaboration. It’s rapid fire.

Cheryl:

Okay, okay, okay. So you know what? Second question, What’s your favorite like westernized fruits, if that makes sense. Like, you know, your favorite fruit that you might see from a children’s storybook or an English storybook?

And what’s your favorite, like, non-Western like a more like Asian fruit, if that makes sense?

Betty:

My favorite Asian fruit is star fruit. And I’m looking at it. There’s a gigantic star fruit I’m about to eat today. It’s great.

And my favorite non-Asian fruit is actually just a good, wholesome apple you can get anywhere.

Cheryl:

Nice.

Question number two or three. What is your podcast Recording Tools?

Betty:

I use this. Is it called Riverdale? Riverside FM online. When I’m at home in Canada, I have my Yeti microphone.

But right now you can see I’m using a RØDE mic and so that’s it.

And my computer and sometimes my camera. Very simple.

Cheryl:

I see.

Okay. And final question. If any, what is your favorite outfit that makes you feel like Super Betty? Like super you. Like what’s your favorite outfit?

Betty:

I usually like things that are quite colorful, which is not reflected in my travel outfit right now.

I don’t have one outfit that comes to mind, but when I’m in my element, it’s usually colorful, big colored blocks and that makes me feel really powerful.

Cheryl:

Colored blocks. So like, big contrast.

Betty:

Big contrast. Yes.

Cheryl:

Very fun.

All right, Betty, thank you so much for participating in this random question segment.

Before we wrap up, Betty, where can people find you and how can people work with you?

Betty:

So you can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn and my website.

And to work with me, there is a link on my website, or you can find it on Instagram and LinkedIn as well to book a free consultation call with me. You should go on that call and we have a good chat and we’ll assess whether there’s a fit there.

And I’m very proud to say that I am very honest when there’s no fit and people always thank me for that. And actually the rates that happen are quite high. It’s like about 30%.

So really come in and hang out and build relations from there.

Cheryl:

So fun! Okay. All the links will be in the show notes. You will find them to scroll down somewhere and you’ll see it.

All righty. Betty, thank you so, so, so much for sharing your story and for making me tear up. I don’t know if people can tell if they’re watching the video, but like I teared up. There’s like a little tear earlier.

Betty:

You need to journal that. Accomplishment today.

Cheryl:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Betty, so much for sharing your story and for being here.

I cannot wait for the audience to glean the lessons that are relevant to them when this episode is aired.

So thank you so, so much. And thank you to the audience for being here.

I’ll see you all in the next episode.

Bye everyone!

About Betty

Betty Xie is a filmmaker, fundraising consultant, career coach and podcaster. She supports creative people to navigate career and business transition so that they can stop aimless hustling and start purposeful living and working. Her podcast The Everyday Talent Podcast features freshest insights on creative life and career and won the 2023 Golden Cranes Award for Best Show for Arts and Creativity.